什麼是菊花獨白？到底在幹嘛？台灣同行者互助協會秘書長美瑜來說說～歡迎收聽～ 🔎 FB：菊花獨白 本集使用音樂「月光海灘」Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) 依據知識分享授權：依歸屬 4.0 授權
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雅婷：歡迎收聽菊花獨白的podcast的第一集哈囉大家好，我是雅婷
Yating: Welcome to the first episode of The Anus Monologues podcast. Hello everyone, my name is Yating.
美瑜：我是美瑜
Meiyu: I am Meiyu
雅婷：先自我介紹一下
Yating: Please introduce yourself first.
美瑜：我是美瑜，然後我是台灣同行者互助協會的秘書長，所以是撞鐘兼校長，這樣子
Meiyu: I am Meiyu, and I am the secretary-general of the Hand In Hand Association of Taiwan, so I am the bell ringer and the principal, like this
雅婷：你怎麼倒過來了人家不是先把校長放在前面嗎？
Yating: Why are you doing it upside down? Didn’t they put the principal first?
美瑜：我覺得我的自我認同，主要是在助人工作這件事情上，那秘書長只是順便的啦
Meiyu: I think my self-identity mainly lies in helping people, and the secretary-general is just incidental.
雅婷：喔是這樣子喔好喔那請先介紹一下，同行者是一個什麼樣的協會？
Yating: Oh, that’s right. Okay, please introduce first. What kind of association is the Hand In Hand Association of Taiwan?
美瑜：台灣同行者互助協會，然後我們是在一百零六年的時候成立的，就是當時我跟一群研究所的同學然後還有我在身心靈學習上面的一些夥伴，然後，就一直在想說，我們怎麼把我們自己身上會的這一些不是一般的，我們在比如說助人專業裡面會被直接認可的這種主流的方法，那我們怎麼樣子可以把它融合進我們的工作裡面、我們想要服務人群的方式裡面，可是我們會的這些方法，好像其他的民間團體、政府單位什麼的可能都不是那麼的理解，或者是直接就可以認同，所以我就算今天要去別的地方工作，我可能也很難用這些方法，因為我沒有辦法說服我的主管嘛那我們就想說，那我們就自己來成立一個協會好了。
Meiyu: The Hand In Hand Association of Taiwan was established in 106. It was me and a group of graduate school classmates and some of my partners in physical and mental studies. From then on, we have been I want to say, how can we integrate these mainstream methods that we have learned in ourselves, which are not ordinary, and are directly recognized in the helping profession, for example, and how can we integrate it into our work? In terms of the way we want to serve people, other civil society organizations and government units may not understand or directly agree with the methods we know. So even if I have to go to work somewhere else today, It may be difficult for me to use these methods, because I have no way to convince my supervisor. So we just want to say, then we will set up an association ourselves.
雅婷：一開始你在做藥癮工作的時候你遇到的一些困境是什麼？
Yating: What were some of the difficulties you encountered when you first started working on drug addiction?
美瑜：我覺得一個是社工，就是你看到一個這麼，難這麼久的一個難題在你眼前，然後我腦袋裡面翻了又翻，我以前在學校所學的，我找不到答案可以來回答，他比如說我曾經遇到一個他爸爸，然後他的孩子吸毒，他就問我說美瑜人生為什麼這麼痛苦？我想了一下所有的心理學啊、社工，這些我能夠想像的到的，專業裡面沒有答案，然後我當時因為在宗教團體工作，然後，我看到宗教好像有一些潛力，而且所有的戒毒團體背後幾乎都是宗教，我就跟他說，你問我的這個問題，人為什麼會痛苦人為什麼要活著，只有宗教有答案，所以我就跟他說，那我們試試看宗教的方法，我當時是用了這個方式。可是我那個時候做著做著，我好像漸漸有一種感覺，就是我們好像在要求那個用藥的朋友、掉落的那個朋友，然後我們陪伴他讓他的心靈堅強了，讓他的身體慢慢恢復健康了，讓他可以工作賺錢了，可是他的生活環境沒有改變，我其實開始反思，就是我們努力的陪伴，我們的這一些來求助的朋友，想說他是不是生命裡面有一些過不去的關卡能力不足的部分，於是我們就陪著他去度過這些關卡，然後陪著他去把自己的能力變得更好，可是我們是不是也同時把他推回了那個，原來讓他生病、讓他掉入困境的那個環境裡面，因為那個環境沒有改變，而我們的工作其實是要求他，你這個環境很困難啊！大家都很困難啊！那你要強壯起來，強壯起來，然後回頭去面對你那個困難，但是他就是會一直掉下去，他在同樣的漩渦裡面不斷的復發，每隔一段時間讓他停藥，好不容易整個停下來，可是他又遇到類似的困難，他又再一次的掉下去了，我那個時候就在想，我們到底在做一件什麼樣的事情，我們把人照顧好了，然後可是我們叫他回去，於是他又掉下去了，我其實就一直覺得我們是不是哪邊不對勁，這是一個什麼樣的工作，要說服我們這些來求助的朋友，是你不好、你要長大、你要變強壯，因為這個社會本來就是這樣子、該改變的人是你、你才是那個有問題的人，我看見了這個方法的困境，才開始想說，那我們有沒有可能用另外一種方式。
Meiyu: I think one is a social worker. When you see a problem that has been so difficult for so long in front of you, then I turn over and over again in my head. What I learned in school before, I can’t find the answer to. Answer, he said, for example, I once met a father whose child took drugs, and he asked me why Meiyu’s life is so painful? I thought about all the psychology and social work fields that I could imagine, but there was no answer within the major. Then, because I was working in a religious group, I saw that religion seemed to have some potential, and all the drug rehabilitation groups Almost everything behind it is religion. I told him, the question you asked me, why do people suffer and why do they want to live? Only religion has the answer, so I told him, let’s try religious methods. I was This is the method used. But as I was doing it at that time, I seemed to gradually have a feeling that we seemed to be asking the friend who took the medicine, the friend who fell away, and then we accompanied him to strengthen his mind and let his body slowly recover. He is healthy and can work and make money, but his living environment has not changed. I actually started to reflect on the company that we have worked hard to accompany. Our friends who came to ask for help wanted to know if there were some obstacles in his life that he could not pass. The part where his abilities are insufficient, so we accompany him to go through these levels, and then accompany him to make his abilities better. But at the same time, are we pushing him back to the part that made him sick and made him sick? He fell into the difficult environment, because that environment has not changed, and our work actually requires him to find that your environment is very difficult! It’s very difficult for everyone! Then you have to get stronger, get stronger, and then go back and face your difficulties, but he will keep falling, and he will keep relapsing in the same whirlpool. Every once in a while, let him stop taking the medicine, and finally he will stop. , but he encountered similar difficulties again, and he fell again. At that time, I was thinking, what kind of thing are we doing? We took good care of the person, and then we asked him to go back. , so he fell again. In fact, I have always wondered if there is something wrong with us. What kind of job is this? We have to convince our friends who come for help that you are not good, you need to grow up, and you need to change. Be strong, because this is how society is, and you are the one who should change, and you are the one with the problem. When I saw the dilemma of this method, I started to think about it, is it possible for us to use another method?
雅婷：你們目前在做的方式是什麼樣的一個方式？
Yating: What is the method you are currently doing?
美瑜：同行者現在其實有兩大塊的工作，一個是在性別人權的工作，那另外一個就是我們的要陪伴的這個工作，那藥癮陪伴，其實最早是當時我們的工作夥伴，其實也正好開始，吸毒了，然後我們就想說這個
Meiyu: Hand In Hand Association of Taiwan actually have two major jobs now. One is the work on gender human rights, and the other is the work we need to accompany. The drug addiction companionship was actually our working partner at the time. It just started, taking drugs, and then we wanted to say this
雅婷：什麼正好開始吸毒聽起來有點奇怪！？
Yating: It sounds a bit strange to start taking drugs right now! ?
美瑜：我覺得人生就是，有時候你會不知道你會遇到什麼樣的困境，然後你不知道什麼會來到你的面前，我們就想說好，那我們就一起來用我們自己的生命經驗，然後來推廣藥癮的服務，就會是我們這一群好朋友們的主要的想說要怎麼做的這個工作這樣，然後前三年我們跟政府申請了一筆經費，然後做了之後呢，我們自己就有一些新心得，然後也看見了我們目前的政府體制，他想要往哪裡去做，比如說現在跟藥癮有關的工作，大概大量的都在醫療的領域，或者是很心理服務的，那一塊的領域。比如說，我們會作為一個社工，我們遇到我們用藥的朋友，那我們就跟他說，好，那你就去看戒癮門診，去醫院看戒癮門診，那你如果心裡面有一些比較多的複雜的，那你去找心理師，那可是那我們社工到底要做什麼呢？
Meiyu: I think life is like, sometimes you don’t know what kind of difficulties you will encounter, and then you don’t know what will come in front of you. We just want to say okay, then let’s use our own Life experience, and then promoting drug addiction services, will be the main idea of our group of good friends to think about how to do this work. Then we applied for a fund from the government in the first three years, and then after doing it Well, we ourselves have some new insights, and then we also see our current government system, where does it want to go. For example, most of the current work related to drug addiction is in the medical field, or in the field of psychological services. For example, as a social worker, when we meet a friend who takes drugs, we will tell him, OK, then you go to the addiction treatment clinic or go to the hospital to see the addiction treatment clinic. If you have some comparisons in your heart, It’s too complicated, so if you go to a psychologist, what exactly are we social workers going to do?
雅婷：感覺社工好像就是在打電話
Yating: It feels like the social worker is just making phone calls
美瑜：打電話，然後問有沒有人願意提供他們服務這樣子，而且還得要是便宜免費的這樣子，因為這些服務其實我覺得他們是很昂貴的，如果如果按照真正的，以這些專業人員要提供這些服務來講，其實我們普通人，你我都是負擔不起的，那我們就要去找這些服務，可是不只是負擔這件事情，還包括我們其實很不習慣，像你，比如說你今天遇到一個人生的難題，你會怎麼做？
Meiyu: Make a phone call and ask if anyone is willing to provide their services, and they have to be cheap and free, because in fact, I think these services are very expensive. If you use these professionals for real In terms of providing these services, in fact, we ordinary people, you and I, cannot afford them, so we have to find these services, but it is not just about affording this matter, but also the fact that we are not used to it, like you, for example Say you encounter a problem in life today, what would you do?
雅婷：去拜拜
Yating: To pray
美瑜：對嗎？你遇到，不開心，然後難題左右選擇困難的時候，你會去拜拜，甚至你會去算命，那什麼時候才會去找到心理師跟社工師？
Meiyu: Right? When you encounter problems, are unhappy, and have difficult choices, you will go to pray, or even go to a fortune teller. Then when will you find a psychologist or a social worker?
雅婷：應該還沒有到那邊
Yating: Probably not there yet
美瑜：應該還不用，對，就是對你來講，你的人生裡面根本沒有這個選項，那對其他那一些，這些生命中掉進困境的這些人，你突然叫他要用這些選項，其實是很彆扭的，覺得他們是誰啊！他聽得懂我在講什麼嗎？我覺得那是很不習慣的啦！尤其是自己的心是我覺得或者是困難、困頓的地方，我覺得那都不是一件容易的事情，那比如說，我常常是幫我們的受服務的這些朋友安排好了門診，看醫生的時間、心理師的時間，他老大那一天就給我，他就不會出現，對，就是其實真的就是不習慣嘛！那我們要花好大的力氣去說服他，說你就使用這個資源吧！那為什麼我們不要乾脆就轉過來，回頭，去想那他生活中本來就有的，那一些很生活化的平易近人的資源是什麼？或者是他身邊就有，很願意傾聽他的朋友，然後很好的醫生輔助的一些一些各種的方法，我們就回到這些東西去思考那怎麼樣子，可以讓這些方法也變成是，當他遇到困難的時候，他記得要回頭去使用這些方法，對，那這個是我們在服務的時候，一個很重要的方向。
Meiyu: Probably not needed yet. Yes, for you, there is no such option in your life. But for other people who are in trouble in life, it is actually very awkward for you to suddenly ask them to use these options. I think they Who is it! Does he understand what I’m saying? I think that is very unaccustomed! Especially my own heart is where I feel it is difficult or trapped. I feel that it is not an easy task. For example, I often help our friends who receive services arrange outpatient services and see doctors. His boss would give me the time and the psychologist’s time that day, so he wouldn’t show up. Yes, it’s just that he’s really not used to it! Then we have to spend a lot of effort to convince him that you should use this resource! Then why don’t we just turn around and think about the resources that are already in his life, which are very life-like and approachable? Or there are friends around him who are very willing to listen to him, and some good doctors assist him with some various methods. We will go back to these things to think about what it will look like, and we can make these methods become yes. When he encounters difficulties, he remembers to go back and use these methods. Yes, this is a very important direction when we are serving.
雅婷：就是說他遇到事情的時候，他知道可以找這個方法來求救。
Yating: It means that when he encounters something, he knows that he can find this way to seek help.
美瑜：對沒有錯，而且是他記得那個東西，他本來就會！本來就都有在用，就在他家入口，那很像鬼打牆，人有時候在掉入某種困境的時候，你就會看不見所有你身邊的資源，那我們在他身邊的時候就是，那就提醒他，不就是旁邊這個嗎？這個不是你很熟嗎？試試看啊。那這樣子，他在去靠近使用這些方法，的，時候他就不會覺得這麼困難，寸步難行，或者是他會記得這不就是我原來的那個嗎？他會比較有信心
Meiyu: That’s right, and he is the one who remembers that thing, he can do it! They were already in use, right at the entrance of his house. It’s like a ghost beating a wall. Sometimes when a person falls into a certain predicament, you can’t see all the resources around you. So when we are around him, then we remind him, isn’t it the one next to him? Aren’t you familiar with this? Give it a try. In this way, when he gets close and uses these methods, he won’t feel so difficult and unable to move even an inch, or he will remember that this is the original me, isn’t it? He will be more confident.
雅婷：那所以同行者現在正在用這樣的方法，去陪伴嗎？
Yating: It means that when he encounters something, he knows that he can find this way to seek help.
美瑜：就是嘗試各式各樣的方法，因為我在十幾年前投入這個領域的時候，當時其實沒有什麼方法，你的朋友會跟我們分享，那個時候他們就是去醫院打針，讓你睡十天出來了，之後你就沒有癮，可是出來了之後就繼續吸毒，那個時候戒毒的方式就是這個樣子，復發的機率很高，然後他們也覺得沒有幫助，或者是不然就是坐牢嘛。可是坐牢，我們也知道出來了之後，他還是繼續，甚至在裡面他遇到了更多吸毒的藥頭、吸毒的朋友，他就知道有更多的毒品哪邊可以買，哪邊可以用
Meiyu: Just try various methods, because when I invested in this field more than ten years ago, there was no method at that time. Your friends will share with us. At that time, they just went to the hospital to give you injections and let you sleep. After ten days, you are no longer addicted, but you continue to take drugs after you are released. The way to detoxify at that time is like this. The probability of relapse is very high, and then they feel that there is no help, or they will go to jail. But after being imprisoned, we also know that after he was released, he continued. He even met more drug addicts and friends who took drugs there, and he knew where to buy more drugs and where to use them.
雅婷：反而是進去補充了新知
Yating: Instead,Thay gained new knowledge.
美瑜：進去讀研究所的，對，所以就覺得那到底有沒有其他的方法，我們那個時候也大家都在找，我就去找了各式各樣的在其他的議題裡面會被使用的方法，那我把他帶入藥癮裡面來用，那比如說我那個時候主要做的是用藥朋友的陪伴或者是家屬的陪伴，然後我們就寫了一些計畫，然後計畫裡面，因為我是佛教團體
Meiyu: To graduate school, yes, so I thought there were other methods. At that time, everyone was looking for them, so I looked for various methods that could be used in other topics. Method, then I brought him into drug addiction. For example, what I mainly did at that time was to accompany drug users or family members. Then we wrote some plans, and then in the plan, because I It’s a Buddhist group
雅婷：當時是佛教團體？
Yating: Was it a Buddhist group at that time?
美瑜：對，我當時是佛教團體，好，然後所以我就試著把宗教的東西融進來，這個好像我機構的主管也可以接受，然後那些補助單位覺得我們是宗教團體，好像也可以理解這件事情，所以不管是打坐、上一些佛法的課程，或者是我那個時候還寫了，比如說薩滿的課程，就打鼓然後吟唱，然後催眠的課程，這些我都把它放進來，現在做這些方式的人越來越多了，可是當時其實是幾乎沒有什麼人在用這個方法了，因為這些方法認識的人也不多，然後再來是在這個領域，沒有人用這種方法，至少在國內是這個樣子，那國外的方法當然就非常多元，一直到後面，我自己開始覺得說做一個社工會的東西太有限了，所以我就開始去尋找，到底有沒有什麼樣子的工具，什麼樣子的陪伴方法，是我可以去再增加的，然後這個陪伴方法是就在我們的這一些朋友們的生活周遭，然後，由於我當時我當時在宗教團體工作，所以我就看見了，好像所有的戒毒的單位背後都是宗教團體，我就想說是不是這個宗教有什麼特殊的效果，所以我那個時候，就去讀研究所，那研究所讀的時候呢，我又認識了其他的輔助療法，精油、花精、按摩啊。好，那我要把這些東西全部學起來，那以後我們就可以用我自己，然後免費的、便宜的方式，提供給就近的方式，提供給我們這些方法，來讓他的身心可以穩定下來的這些朋友，而不是又讓他們，你去找誰你去找誰，你就算幫他準備好了，他都不會來，那不是他熟悉的方式，那個人他也不認識你，叫他去跟一個陌生的人、陌生的方法，然後去打開自己的心去，去說一些他的困難，我覺得那不是容易的事情，反而是如果我自己擁有這一些能力，那我就可以很直接的混搭的方式，然後就可以直接在我們陪伴的過程裡面，就可以拿出來用這樣子。
Meiyu: Yes, I was a Buddhist group at the time, okay, so I tried to incorporate religious things. It seemed that the director of my organization could accept this. Then those subsidy units thought that we were a religious group, which seemed understandable. This matter, whether it is meditation, taking some Buddhist courses, or I also wrote at that time, such as shaman courses, drumming and chanting, and hypnosis courses, I have included these, and now There are more and more people doing these methods, but at that time, almost no one was actually using this method, because not many people knew these methods. Then in this field, no one used this method, at least. This is the case in China, but of course the methods abroad are very diverse. Later, I began to feel that the things I could do as a social worker were too limited, so I started to look for what kind of tools and methods of companionship I could add, and then this The method of companionship is to be around the lives of our friends. Then, because I was working in a religious group at the time, I saw that it seemed that behind all drug treatment units were religious groups, I thought it was It’s not that this religion has any special effects, so I went to graduate school at that time. When I was in graduate school, I got to know other complementary therapies, such as essential oils, flower essences, and massage. Okay, then I want to learn all these things, and then we can use myself to provide free and cheap methods to those nearby, and provide us with these methods to stabilize his body and mind. These friends, instead of letting them, go to whoever you go to. Even if you prepare for him, he will not come. That is not the way he is familiar with, and he does not know that person. Tell him to go. I don’t think it’s easy to talk to a strange person and use a strange method, and then open up my heart and talk about some of his difficulties. On the contrary, if I have these abilities, then I can be very direct. The way of mixing and matching can then be used directly in the process of accompanying us like this.
雅婷：好那美瑜可以講一下，就是現在目前同行者，有在進行的一些團體課程嗎？
Yating: Well, Meiyu, can you tell me, are there any group courses currently being conducted by Hand In Hand Association of Taiwan?
美瑜：好，我們藥癮的部分，目前有兩個團體課程在進行，一個是帕養團，帕斯提養生團，它是提供給HIV感染者的、想要戒癮的這些朋友，一個長期陪伴的團體，那今年帕養團已經來到了第六年了，今年是第六年，然後之前從每個禮拜的聚會，然後到現在變成是一個月一次，因為我們後來就開始從帕養團裡面又長出了另外一個課程，叫做菊花獨白，那菊花獨白，它是一個培力的工作坊，它是讓我們這些已經在帕養團裡面，相對陪伴的比較久，也比較穩定的這些朋友們，他可以有另外一個發展的空間跟機會，因為我們在帕養團裡面，主要都是同溫層、同一類型，遇到類似處境、狀態的這些朋友，大家聚在一起，然後互相的支持彼此、傾聽彼此，然後也一起去找方法，然後那個時候，其實就已經有搭配一些鼓勵我們這些夥伴們，可以用他們自己的、專長或者是時間去陪伴其他也在受苦的人，比如說康復之家的去當志工，或者是去社區大學分享自己的故事，可是總覺得好像有沒有可能再往前走一步，就是一方面是帕養團有一些夥伴，他的戒癮的狀態不是很穩定，就是有時候他可能情緒上來，或者是用藥藥癮的那個狀態又上來，或者是生活中有一些大大小小的事情，讓他沒有辦法，就是我常常準備的課程是沒有辦法用的，就要停下來，然後回頭來，然後去聆聽到底發生了什麼事情。那可是有的人，他已經準備好了要往前走，當然他也很願意，在帕養團裡面支持夥伴，可是他生命中有另外一個動能是他希望可以進一步的去尋找，到底讓他的生命困頓不斷的循環，困在這裡的原因是什麼，所以我們後來就想說，好，那我們再開一個課程，一方面，是讓這一些他的生命想要再往前走的這一些夥伴們，他有一個地方可以持續的發展，另外一方面，我們也打開這個同溫層的這個很硬的外殼，然後打開了之後，讓不同的人也可以一起來靠近、了解這些議題裡面的人，甚至是他們身邊，他們自己有類似的受壓迫的經驗、無名的經驗，他們也有機會可以來這邊聽聽別人的故事，也分享自己的故事，因為我覺得，也許我們再陷入困境的時候，常常都會有類似的難題，或者是不同的難題，那看起來好像感染者吸毒的人、同志，好像生活在另外一個跟你完全沒有關係的圈圈泡泡裡面，可是當我們坐在一起，去看見彼此，然後去親耳聽見他在講話的時候，你會發現原來我們可能沒有這麼近，但是也可能沒有這麼遠喔！那我覺得透過那個過程，可以讓我們一起去跟不同的人去對話，然後去互相聆聽、去練習勇敢的去靠近彼此，那我們有沒有可能一起來走這一條路，我覺得那個培力其實是在做這件事情，而且那一條路是有可能實現的。
Meiyu: Okay, for our drug addiction section, we currently have two group courses going on. One is the Positive health group, which are provided to HIV-infected people who want to quit drug addiction. A group that has been with us for a long time, this year the Positive health group has come to its sixth year. This year is the sixth year. Then it went from gathering every week to once a month now, because we later started to gather from Phra Another course has grown up in the group, called The Anus Monologues. The Anus Monologues is a power-building workshop that allows those of us who have been in the group to stay with us for a relatively long time and be relatively stable. With these friends, he can have another space and opportunity for development, Because in the Positive health group, we are mainly in the same stratosphere and of the same type. When we meet friends in similar situations and situations, we all get together and support each other, listen to each other, and then find solutions together. At that time, there was actually some encouragement for our partners to use their own expertise, or time to accompany other people who were also suffering, such as volunteering in a rehabilitation home, or going to a community college. I share my story, but I always feel that it is possible to take a step forward. On the one hand, there are some partners in the Positive health group, and their addiction recovery status is not very stable. It’s just that sometimes he may get emotional, or the state of drug addiction may come back, or there may be some big or small things in his life that leave him helpless. That is, the courses I often prepare cannot be used, so he needs to Stop, then come back, and listen to what is going on. There are some people, and he is ready to move forward. Of course, he is also very willing to support his friends in the Positive health group, but there is another driving force in his life that he hopes to further search for. What will let him The cycle of life difficulties is endless. What is the reason for being trapped here? So we later thought, OK, then we will open another course. On the one hand, it will make these partners who want to move forward in their lives have a place where they can continue to develop. On the other hand, , we also open the very hard shell of this stratosphere, and then after opening it, different people can come together to get close to and understand the people involved in these issues, and even those around them who have similar situations of oppression. Experience, nameless experience, they also have the opportunity to come here to listen to other people’s stories and share their own stories, because I think maybe when we are in trouble again, we will often have similar problems, or different problems. It seems like infected people, drug addicts, and comrades live in another bubble that has nothing to do with you, but when we sit together, see each other, and then hear him speak with our own ears , you will find that we may not be so close, but we may not be so far either! Then I think that through that process, we can talk to different people together, and then listen to each other and practice being brave to approach each other. Then is it possible for us to walk this path together? I think that empowers us. In fact, we are doing this, and that path is possible.
雅婷：那可以請美瑜講一下，菊花獨白，這個名字是怎麼來的？他的有沒有比較想要去傳達的一個意念？
Yating: May I ask Meiyu to tell you about The Anus Monologues, how did the name come about? Does he have an idea that he wants to convey?
美瑜：我們當時做藥癮團體的時候，其實我們剛開始限制，就是性別友善，因為我們發現來的人很多都是同志，可是後來來的人都是男同志，然後當然我們課程的規劃設計，就會開始朝向夥伴們的組成，它的需求這邊去走，那後來我們在發展菊花的時候也就是想到說，好那對同志來講他最被污名的的那個標籤是什麼？如果以戲劇來講，比如說女生已經有了陰道獨白，然後甚至有了陰莖獨白，但是對同志來講是什麼？我們後來想一想是肛門，但是直接講肛門又太粗魯了，對，就太侷限了，我覺得那個肛門這個字很侷限也很強烈，所以他沒有任何的聯想空間，所以我後來就想說那到底什麼樣的文字可以同義於肛門，可是，又具有一些空間的發揮的空間這樣子，所以後來就想說好，那就是菊花，因為所有的人至少在台灣，大家都知道菊花就是肛門的意思，只是我們會用可愛的，我們面對那種很難其實的東西我們會用可愛的方式來稱呼他，對，那所以菊花他代表的，不只是我們難以啟齒的，沒有人願意聽、願意看的、願意碰觸的，那一些內在的生命的那一些議題，或者是聲音，或者是那一些事件，然後同時我們也希望它可以轉化如同菊花一樣，它同時也是很繽紛色彩的很芬芳的，然後非常美麗的一種存在的狀態，我們就在想說好，那我們就在這個概念裡面，到底怎麼去同時去延伸到我們生命中的那一些，沒有辦法說出口的那些生命故事，那些講不清楚的，你也不知道發生什麼事的，可是你就是為他所苦，那我們有沒有可能在這個課程裡面，一起去把這件事情找出來、整理出來，甚至去翻轉、轉化他把這一些受苦的經驗，成為我們一起好好生活的，這些沃土。
Meiyu: When we were running a drug addiction group, we actually restricted it at the beginning, which was gender-friendly, because we found that many of the people who came were gay, but the people who came later were all gay men, and of course the planning and design of our courses , it will begin to move towards the composition of partners and its needs. Then when we developed Juhua, we also thought of, well, what is the most stigmatized label for gays? If we talk about drama, for example, girls already have vaginal monologues, and then even penis monologues, but what is it for gays? We later thought it was anus, but talking about anus directly was too rude, and yes, it was too restrictive. I felt that the word anus was very restrictive and strong, so he didn’t have any room for association, so I later wanted to say So what kind of word can be synonymous with anus, but it also has some room for expression, so later I thought it would be chrysanthemum, because everyone, at least in Taiwan, knows that chrysanthemum is anus. It just means that we will use cute. When we face something that is difficult to understand, we will call it cute. Yes, so what the chrysanthemum represents is not just what we find difficult to talk about, what no one wants to hear, see, or touch, those issues, sounds, or events of inner life, And at the same time, we also hope that it can be transformed like a chrysanthemum, which is also very colorful, fragrant, and a very beautiful state of existence. We just want to say, okay, then we are in this concept, how do we do it? At the same time, we should also extend to those stories in our lives, those life stories that cannot be told, those that cannot be explained clearly, and you don’t know what happened, but you are suffering from them, So is it possible for us to find out and sort out this matter together in this course, and even turn over and transform these suffering experiences into fertile ground for us to live a good life together?
雅婷：那可以請美瑜講一下菊花獨白裡面它的一個中心跟它涵蓋的一些內容大概是什麼？
Yating: Could you please tell me about the center of The Anus Monologues and some of the contents it covers?
美瑜：菊花獨白在第一年的時候，其實我們也不知道自己要幹嘛！哈哈！不是說不知道啦！我們已經討論了，就是用我們彼此身上有的這一些特點，然後以及我們過去在帕養團裡面，然後走了之後，我覺得這個戲劇的方式是個很不錯的方式，然後我們也有我們的工作夥伴，開始學習一人一故事、受壓迫者劇場的，這一些的表演方式，然後即興劇場，然後我們就在想說好，有沒有可能用戲劇的方式，相對一個比較安全的然後來整理來靠近彼此，所以菊花獨白工作坊，他其實是一個戲劇的培力的方法，以戲劇為主，那今年我們會增加書寫的部分，因為我覺得讓故事可以更完整的去出場，這件事情是重要的那這個故事，指的是我們每一個學員，他自己想要講一個什麼樣主題的故事，他想要跟這個故事維持一個什麼樣的關係，他想要聽到的人會想到什麼，我們有沒有可能在這個過程裡面，你可以做自己，共同的一起來成就這件事情，我覺得這件事情，其實他會讓我們的力量更大，也可以讓這個聲音可以傳到更多不同的地方，然後更遠的地方去。
Meiyu: In the first year of The Anus Monologues, we actually didn’t know what we were going to do! Ha ha! It’s not that I don’t know! We have already discussed that we use these characteristics of each other, and after we were in the Payang Group in the past, and then left, I think this drama method is a very good way, and then we also have our working partners , we started to learn the performance methods of One Person One Story, Theater of the Oppressed, and then improvisational theatre, and then we thought about whether it was possible to use drama in a relatively safe way and then sort it out to get closer to each other. So The Anus Monologues Workshop is actually a drama training method, focusing on drama. This year we will add a writing part, because I think it is important to let the story appear more completely. This story refers to each of our students. What kind of story does he want to tell? What kind of relationship does he want to maintain with this story? What does he want the people who hear it to think about? Do we have any ideas? Maybe in this process, you can be yourself and work together to achieve this thing. I think this thing will actually make us more powerful and allow this voice to spread to more different places. Then go further afield.
雅婷：那剛剛美瑜分享的這麼多，都是很多都是關於陪伴這些夥伴，那你跟夥伴的關係，或者是說你使用了這些新的方法，曾經有因為這樣子而受到質疑嗎？質疑說你身為一個社工你怎麼可以這樣啊！你為什麼不用你學校學的啊！然後你現在這樣子，你根本就不專業啊！
Yating: So much of what Meiyu shared just now is about accompanying these partners. So, has your relationship with your partners, or your use of these new methods, ever been questioned because of this? Questioning: As a social worker, how can you do this? Why don’t you use what you learned in school? And now you are like this, you are not professional at all!
美瑜：比如說帶著我們的夥伴去喝符水之類的事情嗎？哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈，對，就是我們，我們確實用了比較多，你很難去想像一個社工、一個心理師或一個醫生，一個助人工作者會去用的方法，可是你在生活中就是充滿這些東西啊。比如說我們剛剛提到了，我們遇到人生困難的時候，我們就去拜拜，去拜拜有時候就要祭改，祭改了有時候你就會喝個符水，然後你去佛寺也會有個大悲水，或者是幫你這裡淨化一下那裡淨化，香火全身繞一繞之類的嘛！著驚之類的，我覺得這些都是很生活化的東西，可是為什麼當我們稱自己為專業的時候，我們卻視這些東西為非科學、無用的東西，而不是去善用它？特別是它是我們的服務對象生活文化的一部分，它本來就有的可以互相幫助幫助自己的方式，可是當我們成為專業的時候，我們卻不使用這些方法，而是要用另外一套，其實我們的服務朋友們不熟悉的東西，他也覺得很彆扭的東西，那我覺得是回過頭來，我覺得是承認這件事情，承認在我們自己的助人專業裡面，應該要更擴大的去看見我們的服務對象，我們的這一些朋友們，他們真正的想要的服務，想要的需求是什麼，甚至我們自己摸著良心講，你遇到困難的時候，你第一個會去找的是心理師嗎？
Meiyu: For example, taking our friends to drink talisman water? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, that is, we really use more. It is difficult for you to imagine a method that a social worker, a psychologist or a doctor, a helping worker will use, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life, but you are living in life. China is full of these things. For example, as we just mentioned, when we encounter difficulties in life, we go to pray. When we go to pray, we sometimes have to pray for changes. When we pray for changes, sometimes you will drink talisman water, and then you will also have a blessing when you go to a Buddhist temple. The Great Compassion Water may help you purify here and there, or use incense to wrap around your body, etc.! I think these are very life-like things, but why do we regard these things as unscientific and useless when we call ourselves professionals, instead of making good use of them? In particular, it is part of the life culture of our service recipients. It already has ways to help each other and ourselves. However, when we become professionals, we do not use these methods, but use another set. In fact, Our service friends are not familiar with things, and they also find them very awkward. Then I think that in retrospect, I think it is acknowledging this matter and admitting that we should see it more broadly in our own helping profession. Our service recipients, our friends, what services they really want and what their needs are. Even if we say it with our own conscience, when you encounter difficulties, you will be the first one to go to them. Is he a psychologist?
雅婷：不是。
Yating: No.
美瑜：第一個會去找的是看醫生嗎？
Meiyu: Go to see a doctor first?
雅婷：絕對不會！
Yating: Absolutely not!
美瑜：更不會是社工嗎？完全不會不在你的人生選項裡面，這很正常的嘛！那我們怎麼會去要求我們這一些服務的接受服務的朋友，他應該要來使用這些服務？我覺得是，反而是很日常生活中的一些東西，他就會更覺得說，即使我的身邊沒有這一些社工、心理師、醫生，可是我知道怎麼幫助我自己，而這些資源就在我的身邊，而且他很便宜，你不用花太多的錢，不用太多的壓力，而且你要想一想會去寺廟裡面拜拜的人，他的人生不會比你更好過，你不是那個最糟的喔！那你就不會覺得你身上貼了一個好像我無能為力，我是一個很失敗的人，沒有在會去拜拜的人多的是失敗的人，他的人生帶著各種無解的難題，所以他去了，那我們也是啊！對啊！
Meiyu: Not even a social worker? It won’t be out of your life options at all, this is normal!So how can we ask our friends who receive services to use these services? I think it is, but it is some things in daily life, and he will feel more like, even if I don’t have these social workers, psychologists, and doctors around me, I know how to help myself, and these resources are at my side. It’s around you, and it’s very cheap. You don’t have to spend too much money or put too much pressure on it. And you have to think about the people who go to the temple to worship. His life will not be better than yours. You are not the worst. Oh! Then you won’t feel like there’s something stuck on you like I can’t do anything, I’m a very failure, and there are more people who don’t know how to say goodbye than failures. Their lives are filled with all kinds of unsolvable problems, so If he goes, so do we! yes!
雅婷：但是你覺得現在你用這些方法，但是不會被人家質疑說，你就是一個帶人家去拜拜的阿姨啊？
Yating: But do you think that if you use these methods now, people will not question you and say that you are just an aunt who takes people To pray?
美瑜：我覺得是我們要擴大我們的專業是，也就是我們怎麼去真正的去理解助人這件事情，他不是只有一種方法，那當我們開始學習一種助人方法的時候，難道我們就不能學習第二種、第三種、第四種嗎？難道我們就要被這個所謂的助人的身份這一張牌照給困住嗎？你想想看我也沒有傷害人啊！我也沒有讓別人傷害我啊！那我到底違反了什麼助人專業你告訴我。
Meiyu: I think we need to expand our major, that is, how do we truly understand the matter of helping others? There is not only one method, so when we start to learn a method of helping others, do we Can’t we learn the second, third, and fourth kind? Are we going to be trapped by this so-called identity of helping others? Think about it, I didn’t hurt anyone! I didn’t let anyone hurt me either! So tell me what exactly I violated the profession of helping others.
雅婷：可能上班的時候去拜拜哈哈哈！
Yating: Maybe to pray in your working time, hahaha!
美瑜：我們是去攏絡社區鄰里的關係，這個在我們的服務工作項目裡面也是必要的，要跟警察局、里長、當地的寺廟啊！大家都要關係很好的，你要知道，這些都是我們社會很重要的力量、穩定的力量、互相陪伴的力量，其實人真的在生活中，我們那種左右鄰里的關係，或者是說這種很日常的，我覺得那才是生活，跟不管是社工、心理師、醫生在一個小房間裡面講的那一些話，那個是很不尋常的一件事情，
Meiyu: We are here to build relationships with neighbors in the community. This is also necessary in our service projects, including the police station, the district chief, and the local temple! Everyone should have a good relationship. You have to know that these are very important forces in our society, the forces of stability, and the forces of accompanying each other. In fact, in people’s lives, our relationship with neighbors, or in other words, This kind of everyday thing, I think that’s life. It’s something very unusual compared to what social workers, psychologists, and doctors say in a small room.
雅婷：是滿僵硬的事情啦！
Yating: It’s a very stiff thing!
美瑜：可能對你有可能很有那種經驗，可能拿香拜拜，講得比較多一點，對啊。而且還會不只拜一間，是嗎？每逢廟必拜，多少人是這個樣子，然後每年都要拜點個光明燈什麼的。
Meiyu: Maybe you have that kind of experience, maybe you can take incense and to pray, and talk a little more, right. And there will be more than one room, right? Every time you go to a temple, you must worship. How many people are like this, and then every year they have to worship a bright lantern or something.
雅婷：那像你推這樣子比較新的一個方式的時候，那像菊花獨白，去年已經第一年嘛。那這兩年你有沒有比較一下？有遇到一些什麼樣的挑戰或是困難嗎？
Yating: When you promoted a relatively new method like The Anus Monologues, last year was already the first year. Have you compared the past two years? Have you encountered any challenges or difficulties?
美瑜：其實我在第一年的時候，我寫了好多計畫書四處，去找錢，但什麼錢都找不到，然後當時我甚至送了一個國科會計畫，然後當時的國科會的那個委員就說，你就一直在講這個社會的體制不好啊，這個方法有問題，那你幹嘛還來跟我們申請錢？哈哈哈哈哈哈哈！但我覺得他也點出了一個很現實的事情是，這個方法，至少在國內，然後它還沒有被理解，然後使用這個觀點的人現在還很少，但是我們知道這個方法在不同的國家，其實已經很普遍的使用了，特別是在那種很邊緣、少數的這些受壓迫的議題裡面，他是被使用的，而且其實目前看起來，其實效果什麼的展現出來的東西是很不但在國內沒有，那所以當時我們同行者就有自籌的經費，因為我們是很小的團體，一個完整的方案要自籌經費是非常非常困難的，然後後來，還好有那個募資平台一起夢想的募資，平台所以我們有籌到幾萬塊錢，那再搭配我們機構的自籌經費，那終於第一年做了網站，然後還有在一起夢想的幫忙之下，然後去連結了有一位叫做香菱的一位網紅，然後來跟我們做了一個訪問，所以我們有做了一個影片，然後有兩場的公演，線上策展、實體策展等等的。有了這些東西的累積，看不懂我們在幹什麼的朋友，還有我們自己也漸漸去看懂，原來這件事情走到這邊會這樣發展，或者是原來我們在幹嘛，當我們的夥伴在影片裡面講，我希望可以有一個世界是我們可以做自己，我們可以說自己想說的話，而不用擔心會被別人否定會被別人排斥，然後會被別人各種的歧視這樣子，當他講了這句話的時候，我覺得他講了一個很重要的，就是我們在菊花裡面營造出來的氛圍，以及我們想要開創出來的那個世界，那個人與人之間的那個真實的關係，我們有沒有可能是這樣子很良善的互相支持彼此去，面對我們生活中共同的或者是個別的那一些困境，那在第二年的時候，我覺得有第一年的基礎的時候，第二年我們就比較有信心的知道，第一年的bug在哪裡，我們第二年開始做整課程內容的調整，或者是我們呈現那個表演的展演的呈現的方式的調整，但是即使如此，那個經費都還是非常的困難，今年還是比去年好，不過我們現在都還在等待中，不知道最後會怎麼樣，因為今年的經費其實還不是很夠，然後因為我們這個課程應該是極少數，他比學校的課程還長，你知道學校的課程只有十六到十八週，我們我們是二十堂課，然後二十堂課每次是二點五小時，經歷了八個月，長達八個月的課程，這麼長的時間裡面，我不知道我們最後會有多少的夥伴能夠一起走到最後面，然後一起可以有一個更紮實的、互動出來的這一些累積，我不知道那個作品最後會長成什麼樣子，因為我們到底可以做到哪裡，然後有多少成員可以走到這邊，我其實是不小的，我覺得這依然是很大的挑戰，然後還有一個是我每年都不知道我們最後會做什麼東西出來，比如說去年我們明明就是以愛滋、藥癮然後性別，然後污名議題這一些為主嘛。然後我們就想說會不會弄一個什麼藥癮的之類的還是疾病的議題出來，結果沒有，弄一個性侵的議題，最後大家共同出來的是性侵的議題，我也很驚訝可是我沒有辦法多說，我們夥伴共同決定他目前故事只想講到這裡，那後來夥伴是決定留下來的，在第二年的時候，那有沒有可能在第二年的時候我們再把更完整的拼圖拼上去，我不知道，因為今年會變成什麼樣子，夥伴們願意講一個什麼樣子的故事，那個故事有多靠近自己，這是要他們自己去決定的，或者是他們想要再從哪一個角度來講另外一個故事，那當然，這些故事我們在裡面，我們都知道，其實都是相連結的，可是外面的人，他看到的會是什麼。
Meiyu: In fact, when I was in my first year, I wrote a lot of plans and went around looking for money, but I couldn’t find any money. Then I even sent it to a Chinese National Science School for planning. The committee member at the meeting said, you have been saying that the social system is not good, and there are problems with this method, so why do you come to apply for money from us? Hahahahahaha! But I think he also pointed out a very realistic thing, which is that this method, at least in China, has not yet been understood, and there are still very few people using this point of view, but we know that this method is used in different countries. In fact, it has been very commonly used, especially in the marginalized and minority oppressed issues. In fact, it seems that at present, In fact, the results were not shown in China, so we, the fellow travelers, had to raise our own funds at that time. Because we were a very small group, it was very, very difficult to raise our own funds for a complete plan. Then later on, fortunately, we had that fundraising platform to raise funds with us, so we were able to raise tens of thousands of dollars, and then combined with our organization’s self-raised funds, we finally built a website in the first year, and then there were With the help of Dream Together, we contacted an Internet celebrity named Xiangling, who came to do an interview with us, so we made a video, and then had two performances, online curation, Physical curation and so on. With the accumulation of these things, friends who don’t understand what we are doing, and we ourselves gradually understand, it turns out that this matter will develop like this, or what we are doing, When our partner said in the film, I hope there can be a world where we can be ourselves and say what we want without worrying about being denied or rejected by others, and then being discriminated against by others. Zi, when he said this, I think he said something very important, which is the atmosphere we create in Chrysanthemum, and the world we want to create, the relationship between people. In a real relationship, is it possible for us to be so kind and support each other? When faced with common or individual difficulties in our lives, in the second year, I feel that there is a difference in the first year. When it comes to the basics, in the second year we will be more confident in knowing where the bugs were in the first year. In the second year, we will start to adjust the entire course content, or adjust the way we present the performance. But even so, the funding is still very difficult. This year is still better than last year, but we are still waiting and don’t know what will happen in the end, because this year’s funding is actually not enough, and because our course should It is one of the very few. It is longer than the school curriculum. You know the school curriculum is only sixteen to eighteen weeks. We have twenty classes, and each of the twenty classes lasts two and a half hours, and we have gone through eight Month, eight months of course, in such a long time, I don’t know how many partners we will have to get to the end together, and then together we can have a more solid and interactive accumulation, I I don’t know what that work will look like in the end. Because where can we go, and how many members can get here, I am actually not small. I think this is still a big challenge, and another thing is that every year I don’t know what we will do in the end. Things come out. For example, last year we obviously focused on AIDS, drug addiction, gender, and stigma issues. Then we thought about whether we would come up with an issue about drug addiction or disease, but we didn’t. We would come up with an issue about sexual assault. In the end, we all came up with an issue about sexual assault. I was also surprised, but I There is no way to say more. Our partner jointly decided that he only wanted to tell the story here. Later, he decided to stay. In the second year, is it possible that we can tell a more complete story in the second year? Put the puzzle together, I don’t know, Because of what this year will be like, what kind of story the partners are willing to tell, and how close that story is to them, it is up to them to decide, or from which angle they want to tell another story. Of course, we are inside these stories, and we all know that they are actually all connected, but what do people on the outside see?
雅婷：尤其是今年又有很多新的夥伴加入，對不對？今年多元背景的夥伴
Yating: Especially this year, there are many new partners joining us, right? This year’s partners from diverse backgrounds
美瑜：對，今年的夥伴有更多的，不管是助人領域的，或者是他可能是宗教背景的、教育背景的，然後當然也有我們剛剛講的，愛滋、藥癮、性少數的這些夥伴都是有的，對，然後我覺得那個對話的層次、深度，在經過第一年的累積之後，今年一定會再更往更多不同的層次去走。你知道嗎？就是我們沒有一個前面的model告訴你，這條路會走到哪裡去，沒有一個答案，這件事情其實是很令人
Meiyu: Yes, there are more partners this year, whether they are in the field of helping others, or they may have religious or educational backgrounds, and of course there are also those we just talked about, such as AIDS, drug addiction, and sexual minorities. We all have partners, yes, and I think the level and depth of the dialogue, after the accumulation in the first year, will definitely go to more different levels this year. Did you know? It’s just that we don’t have a previous model to tell you where this road will go. There is no answer. This matter is actually very puzzling.
雅婷：在現代社會應該不容許
Yating: It should not be allowed in modern society
美瑜：對啊！因為我們的績效就是，你就是做這個案子，你就是要達到什麼績效嘛！沒有，我們這個案子，因為我們得要回到每個人的生命裡面，讓他的生命自己去決定，他在這個時候是不是有條件可以說出那樣子的一個故事了，對，所以我覺得這個也是總是挑戰未知的事情，總是充滿挑戰，可是我認為他的，那我也看見了，這件事情確實會帶著我們往前走，只是那一條往前走會走到哪裡走哪一條路，這個是交給每一個人去決定的。
Meiyu: Yes! Because our performance is that if you work on this case, you must achieve the performance you want! No, in our case, because we have to go back to each person’s life and let his life decide for himself whether he is qualified to tell a story like that at this time, yes, so I think this It is also always challenging unknown things, always full of challenges, but I think his, then I have also seen that this matter will indeed take us forward, but which way will lead us to which way? Road, this is left to everyone to decide.
雅婷：那最後最後美瑜還有沒有什麼事情想要說，或者是對今年的期許啊？或者想要總結或想要呼籲啊～什麼之類的。
Yating: Finally, is there anything else Meiyu wants to say, or what are your expectations for this year? Or you want to summarize or appeal, or something like that.
美瑜：我覺得是這樣子的，對非營利組織來說，尤其是像我們這種迷你型的那種，那種顧門的兼撞鐘的這一種超級小型的團體
Meiyu: I think this is the case. For non-profit organizations, especially mini-type groups like ours, super small groups that are both door-keepers and bell-ringers.
雅婷：校長去哪裡了？你又要顧大門，又要撞鐘，沒有校長
Yating: Where is the principal? You have to take care of the gate and ring the bell, and there is no principal
美瑜：知道非營利組織，我們有很多老闆，理監事，是一卡車的
Meiyu: As far as non-profit organizations are concerned, we have many bosses, managers and supervisors. It’s like a truckload.
雅婷：這樣子，這樣子
Yating: Like this, like this
美瑜：對，就是我們試著去創造很多金錢做不到的事情，因為在資源非常有限的狀況之下，我們也真心的去跟人互動的時候，我覺得我們自然而然就會有一群志同道合的人，然後他願意在這個時候盡他的全力，跟你一起完成這一件他覺得很棒、很重要的事情，然後我會很希望我們做出來的這一些展演，這些作品可以有很多人可以一起來聆聽，可以一起來對話，然後當然更好的是可以加入我們，不管是支持我們，或者是一起來加入這些課程，或者是來看我們的這一些展演，我覺得這個才是我們真正想要達到的，那個對話的過程，讓更多的人可以去開始打開自己，然後去聆聽不同的故事，也去說出自己不同的故事。
Meiyu: Yes, we try to create a lot of things that cannot be done with money, because when we sincerely interact with people under very limited resources, I think we will naturally have a group of like-minded people. Then he is willing to do his best at this time to complete this thing with you that he thinks is great and important. Then I would very much hope that many people can listen to these works together and have conversations with us, and of course, what is even better is that they can join us, whether to support us or to join these works. Courses, or coming to see some of our performances, I think this is what we really want to achieve, the process of dialogue, so that more people can start to open themselves up, and then listen to different stories and talk about them. Tell your own different stories.
雅婷：好喔。今天謝謝大家收聽菊花獨白podcast！美瑜辛苦了
Yating: OK. Thank you everyone for listening to the The Anus Monologues podcast today! Thank you for your hard work, Meiyu.
美瑜：謝謝
Meiyu: Thank you
雅婷：謝謝大家的收聽，那我們下次見喔，bye bye
Yating: Thank you everyone for listening, see you next time, bye bye
＃性別＃弱勢＃受壓迫者劇場＃藥癮＃支持團體